12 May 2009
Paul Boag: The Demise of the Website
At the Future of Web Design in London, Ryan Carson grabbed Paul Boag for a quick chat. We covered the “demise of the website”, important tips for web designers and how to sell your design skills.
Here are the major takeaway points from the interview:
- We’re approaching the “demise of the website”. Your website is no longer your only route to your customers. You should be publishing your content and entering conversations in as many channels as possible including: AudioBoo, Twitter, FaceBook and FriendFeed.
- Biggest tip for web designers: Learn how to “sell yourself”. This means you need to be comfortable selling your skills and ideas to potential customers. A large part of this is healthy self-promotion.
- It’s important to never fool your customers, even if the end-game is honorable. A great example is IE6update.com. It essentially uses JavaScript to trick users into upgrading from IE6 to the latest version of Internet Explorer. In general that’s a great thing, but tricking people to do it is deceitful. This lesson applies to sales and marketing – never try to fool people – they’ll always find you out.
If selling yourself and healthy self-promotion are key to being a successful web designer, what’s the best way to do it? Please give us your thoughts in the comments.
Photo credit: flickr.com/photos/kurafire
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JohnONolan
# May 12, 2009 - 10:32 am
What??? How did IE6Update even fit into that list? Getting really bored of Paul's opinion on the matter being shoved down everyone's throats – it remains, after all, an opinion – and at the moment it seems to be the scapegoat for absolutely everything.
"oh yeah my cat died last week" – "probably IE6Update"
"my web design business isn't marketing itself very well" – "definitely IE6Update"
"I have a strange rash on my left leg" – "you've been using IE6Update haven't you"
jmoney
# May 12, 2009 - 5:48 am
Promote, sell yourself and don’t lie.
Hasn’t that always been the case?
Nothing new.
JohnONolan
# May 12, 2009 - 11:54 am
I did post another reply to you Ryan and it's showing up in the comment count but not underneath yours!
badass
# May 12, 2009 - 12:08 pm
I would have to disagree on the IE6 part,
IE6 users are uneducated and are ignoring the web's advancements, I would use a gun if needed to make an IE6 user upgrade!
nickpettit
# May 12, 2009 - 12:48 pm
Hey Ryan! Paul, we've met. :D
Sorry you don't feel IE6Update is the way to go. We understand the taboo of duping a UI element, but often times, IE6 users don't understand the difference between their browser and the Internet. Think about that for just a second…
Done21 is my company, but by day I'm a software engineer at a healthcare consulting firm, and to say that I've worked with large populations of IE6 users is putting it lightly. From my experience, I've found that explanations and education go a long way, but some users will just never understand, or care to understand. IE6Update designed to build awareness through channels they're accustomed to. It isn't right for every audience, and for many, it should be considered a last resort.
I know we'll probably never agree on this, but regardless, thanks for speaking up and sharing your thoughts. :D
Nick Pettit
Co-Creator of IE6Update.com
Dave Smith
# May 12, 2009 - 1:28 pm
What I don't understand is why someone "high profile" in the web industry (Paul, Ryan I'm looking at you) doesn't ask the BBC if they can go on "BBC Breakfast" and do a slot on the importance of having an up to date browser.
Surely they'd be open to it. You could frame it as "security". Any thoughts (as this may be a flawed suggestion)?
Ryan Carson
# May 12, 2009 - 2:07 pm
Dave – Great idea. I guess I could try! :)
Jorge Piñon
# May 12, 2009 - 4:08 pm
Love Paul. But is Ryan Carson like 7 feet tall? Paul looks like a small child speaking up to an adult. Hilarious!
adjustable transfer bench
# May 12, 2009 - 11:45 am
Thank you very much for taking the time to post this. Everyone should know about these things. I enjoy learning new things so I subscribe to blogs like yours. Garnet
Jay
# May 12, 2009 - 6:05 pm
Demise? I think that is the wrong concept for what is happening. Maybe extending the presence of a web site is a better view of what companies should be doing. I completely agree that companies should use any new tools that further their presence. If a tool is not working though (examples being the Twitter outages lately, Facebook experiencing some possible technical problem, etc.), then a company needs to make sure their site is more than adequate and engaging to customers.
James Bloor
# May 12, 2009 - 9:39 pm
I normally like most of what Paul says, but I think recently he (and others) have begun to 'preach' and focus on quantity not quality.
I think this video is a little off the mark for a few reasons:
1 – A website has NEVER been the ONLY route to your customers (as you say in point 1) – a website should always be ONE PART of a marketing plan.
2 – Integration with other mediums is not a new concept – Before Twitter there was RSS, YouTube, etc.
3 – Whilst it's clearly advisable for Paul to get a high profile on twitter, etc, most business won't benefit to the same degree from this type of online PR.
I completely agree with Paul's comments on selling yourself though. There's so many talented designers/developers out there that you have to raise your profile, which he is excellent at.
That's my ten pence anyway…
James
web designers
# May 13, 2009 - 7:24 am
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the post… I appreciate it….
Matt Hill
# May 13, 2009 - 3:41 pm
I'm not sure I agree with the idea that websites are "in demise". It's true that other channels can be used to get people interested in our content, but I think the website is still the fundamental first point of call for many of our users and customers, both new and existing.
Most of us in the industry have a tendency to forget that average users don't use (and often aren't even aware of) half the technologies that Paul mentioned as alternatives. We shouldn't assume that our website is now less important simply because our own lives are saturated with alternate methods for pushing out content.
Average users aren't us. They don't use Twitter or RSS the way we do, and if they use YouTube or Facebook it's to watch videos of Scottish singing sensations or share daft pictures of cats.
Ryan Carson doesn’t like IE6 Update - Almost Done
# May 13, 2009 - 10:03 pm
[...] Ryan’s post over at ThinkVitamin launched some great debate, which I love (life would be boring otherwise). And in the comments, Ryan gave a nod to IE6 Update’s innovation, which I’m humbled by (although some credit goes to ActiveBar2, from which IE6 Update is derived). Cool as Ryan may be though, I’m bewildered by what he says next: “I worry about the folks who are using an intranet or some bespoke internal web app that relies on IE6, which would then break for them.” [...]
PaulRandall
# May 16, 2009 - 9:51 am
Good web designers make things work in IE6 – not dismiss them as 'uneducated peasants'. Maybe not 100% but so the website functions.
Some don't have a choice, some don't care, some don't know what a 'browser' is. They just double-click 'The Blue E' and think it is the Internet.
I wish people would see this and stop hating IE6. It will be around for a long, long time to come…
Aceo Art
# May 17, 2009 - 3:46 am
As a noob on the subject I learnt a lot from your post. Thanks!
Google Chrome Wallpapers
# May 17, 2009 - 7:51 am
I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to reading more from you in the future.
John S.
# May 18, 2009 - 10:19 am
I’ve done a lot of searching on google for this type of content. Glad I finally found this site! Great work.
Acai
# May 19, 2009 - 8:49 am
If a tool is not working though (examples being the Twitter outages lately, Facebook experiencing some possible technical problem, etc.),
Vinzon1
# May 19, 2009 - 11:21 am
It's true that other channels can be used to get people interested in our content, but I think the website is still the fundamental first point of call for many of our users and customers, both new and existing.
Minute44 » Blog Archive » IE6Update: Who watches the watchmen? :: Dan Schonhaar's blog
# May 22, 2009 - 9:32 am
[...] taken to the Internet Explorer site and shown how to upgrade. This is where the argument starts. Paul Boag, in a recent chat with Ryan Carson discussed why he feels that IE6Update is totally wrong and he’s caught a fair bit of flak for [...]
Teen
# May 22, 2009 - 10:05 pm
Paul Boag is so right with what he said. a website or a seller should not fool their clients because if you fool your client, then you would not get their loyalty. at least if you know that your consumers or clients are loyal to you, no matter what happens, you would never go zero when it goes to your clients.
John Wright
# June 4, 2009 - 10:03 pm
The "demise of the website" is an interesting concept. Obviously websites will be with us for a long time to come. But customers hiring someone to build them a website so they can have a web presence is becoming less and less important I think.
Also, check out http://deathtoie6.com , obviously the same goal as IE6 Update but the script will explain to the user that IE6 is bad, and will redirect them to http://abetterbrowser.org to help them use something better.
Cheers
Suzie
# June 10, 2009 - 6:05 pm
There is a blogpost on here about the new google Wave application. I think THAT is the ultimate website killer, and we will need to think outside the box on how to monopolize and make money off that.
Ryan Carson
# May 12, 2009 - 11:23 am
Don't think Paul is "shoving it down everyone's throats". Like you said, it's just his opinion (and I happen to agree with him).
Dan
# May 12, 2009 - 11:53 am
Yeah, I agree with Paul and (shockingly) Ryan on this one too. Getting folks to upgrade their version of IE is an honourable cause but tricking them into doing it is an all togeather dark move.
IE6Update actually made me think of the ending of Watchmen. If you don't know what I mean, read/watch it… now.
Nick Pettit
# May 16, 2009 - 11:57 pm
LOL :)
JohnONolan
# May 12, 2009 - 11:26 am
You mis-read that, I didn't say Paul was doing the shoving. Paul built the bandwagon, and everyone else has jumped on!
As was proved by the whole Carsonified FOWD Slide specwork debate, apparently it only takes a few words from Paul and suddenly everyone jumps on it like there's no tomorrow.
JohnONolan
# May 12, 2009 - 12:17 pm
You went too far, just a tip
Ryan Carson
# May 12, 2009 - 1:21 pm
Hey Nick,
Thanks for weighing in. Please take my view on IE6Update.com as anything personal. I think it's innovative, but the wrong way to go about it.
I worry about the folks who are using an intranet or some bespoke internal web app that relies on IE6, which would then break for them.
Thoughts?
Best,
Ryan
JohnONolan
# May 12, 2009 - 2:00 pm
If it's a bespoke intranet for a company running IE6 – then surely the developers wouldn't install the IE6update script… and even if they did it wouldn't break it would it?
Dan
# May 12, 2009 - 3:54 pm
You hit the nail on the head about users never understanding. I recently published a blog about building the web for non-techies and this discussion may well cause me to do a follow up piece about how people perceive their browser.
I think one major pitfall of your stance on building awareness through channels they are accustomed to is it rather goes against a golden rule that they more than likely have been told again and again; Don't click on every little thing that pops up in your browser, you'll end up with a million and one viruses. Granted, most people won't be confused by this but it's a risk non the less and could stand to un-do a lot of the positive education about safe browsing people have been given.
As ignorant or un-interested as people may be I still feel that education will never be a lost cause and resorting to trickery is a step in the wrong direction.
nickpettit
# May 12, 2009 - 1:57 pm
I'm all about education. What do you think about this, Carson?
JohnONolan
# May 12, 2009 - 2:02 pm
You're forgetting that a large proportion (the majority?) of IE6 users don't use it by choice, they are stuck on corporate computer systems that were puchased 10 years ago. The computers are only capable of running Windows 2000 (not XP) and are therefor only capable of running IE6. There are plenty of IT managers out there who would upgrade company broswers if they could, but they can't.
Ryan Carson
# May 12, 2009 - 2:11 pm
Just Tweeted – hopefully someone from the BBC will be able to help.
Dave Smith
# May 12, 2009 - 3:41 pm
Nice one. I wonder if anyone will respond. I reckon it would do much more good than tricking people into upgrading.
I would always say that educating people as to why they should upgrade browsers is much the best way to kill off IE6.
Ryan Carson
# May 12, 2009 - 4:56 pm
I'm getting introductions to some key people at BBC – fingers crossed!
get_dave
# May 12, 2009 - 3:51 pm
Hey John. Understand what your saying. However, if Ryan could get on BBC with this then perhaps some of the guys with the clout to force people to upgrade corp system would be spurred into action?
I'm not saying it'll work, but if it helps speed up the demise of IE6 then it's good by me!
@get_dave
JohnONolan
# May 12, 2009 - 3:57 pm
I'm not sure that Ryan being on the BBC will inspire large corporations to spend millions on both new computer hardware and operating systems in the middle of a recession, 12 months away from a new Windows release, tbh…. But yeah it'd be good for public awareness I guess.
IMO web designers get far too caught up in our own issues with browsers, scripts, and their importance and relevance – and forget that it isn't of much interest to anyone outside the industry.
Frank
# May 13, 2009 - 10:23 am
But the point is that if you run a web site and use it, one of those intranet users might click on it and unwittingly upgrade to IE7, against company policy.
Next time the user tries to bill hours, or submit expenses on their intranet-based system, it doesn't work anymore. They call IT support, and these guys will hate you for the rest of your life, because they have to fix the mess that you have created by displaying something that pretends to be a legitimate system message. (Hint: Have you ever tried to uninstall IE7 and reinstall IE6?)
This IE6Update thing is wrong on so many levels it's unreal.
Matt Hill
# May 13, 2009 - 2:39 pm
Very puzzled by your inconsistent views John. You've expressed vehement support for ie6update thing, then say it's not even important to anyone outside the industry. If it's not important, why use that script? You would do as well to ignore it, as most other responsible developers have.
One can't sit on both sides of a fence at the same time, so which side are you on?
JohnONolan
# May 13, 2009 - 2:59 pm
Actually my views are extremely consistant – I said to you on twitter that if I interviewed people and asked them if they cared that it wasn't an official MS notification, they wouldn't care – which is exactly what I've just said here.
You seem intent on having an argument about it but I'm just not interested mate.
Matt Hill
# May 13, 2009 - 2:41 pm
That's excellent news, a bit of public education through a pervasive media giant can only be a good thing. Looking forward to hearing more on this.
Matt Hill
# May 13, 2009 - 3:34 pm
I'm not entirely sure why you think this is an argument. It's called "discussion" where I'm from. Your comments on Twitter were about a different aspect of the debate from what you stated above, so I remain confused that you seem to have two opposing views on the matter.